Random Notes

Notes from talking with Zack

• Arranging areas. At the beginning of the game, each player reveals their areas and leader. Then the player with first initative (decided by a die roll) arranges first their areas followed by the other players in play order.
• Every player draws every turn.
• When a player runs out of cards in their deck draw abilities are simply ignored.
• All cards have a Range. No card can have an effect beyond its range. Actions inherit their range from their source permanent (unless they have a specified range).
• A leader is just a character, except that ii is not targetable except by cards that explicitly target leaders.
• 4 areas, 1 of which is required to be basic (no ability, Initial Energy: 2E 2P 2L).
• Interlaced turns, player with initative becomes active first. After each stack resolves the next player become active. Alternating inititive between turns.
• Characters come into play undrained.
• Combat rounds. Characters can only move once per round. All characters ave speed of 1 unless otherwise stated. A combat "stack" is a series of rounds.
• Retreat is normal motion at double speed (2 areas per movement), except that the character is moving while drained. However the character is still considered to pass through each area and they can trigger activated abilities (like caltrops or the like).

Hybernation

Zack gave me the idea of Hybernation. An ability that would allow a character to stay drained during the restore phase without dying. However to undrain the character the player would need to pay a large cost, perhaps double the character's cost.

The First Game

The first game of The Dim Future was played May 11, 2006 by Arthur and Steven. We played using 3x5 note cards with the text hand written on them. It went very well and we learned a lot.

• The energy balance of decks (having enough energy of the right kind to do what you need) is very important.
• Initial Energy may be more important than Restore Energy.
• The game plays kind of like a real-time stategy game.
• Going first is a major advantage because you can hit the other player while they still have only drained charaacters. Something may need to be done to fix this.
• There needs to be a way to break energy starvation situation near the end of the game, so that one player can win. Games where neither player can win are sad. Steven thought about allowing cards to be discarded for energy. Maybe half their cost, but that makes high cost cards to valuable and easy to use, so maybe a fixed number like 2 energy of the cards predominant energy type.
• If the above is in place there should be a fairly tight maximum hand size like 7 (with a starting hand of 6). Otherwise a player could keep lots of cards and then just discard as needed. But maybe that wouldn't matter. It's still only 2 energy mana a turn. Maybe it should be for skipping your draw phase instead. That would be a heavier penalty.
• The combat system works fairly well which is nice.
• Overall the game works really well for a first game. It was actually fun and the decks were not too badly matched.
• I need to stardardize costs and Initial Energies and such like to make balancing the game easier.
• I think 1 energy should have the same value as 1 damage. I need to come up with a bunch of equalities like that so I can use them while creating cards.

A Chat with Steven

(18:53:11) Arthur: So I had the wacky idea.
(18:53:42) Arthur: I'm going to start designing a tradable card game with anyone who cares to help.
(18:54:25) Steven: yea? i had that idea a few years back too. i got as far as card concepts then trashed it on account of im a bad artist lol
(18:55:20) Arthur: I have a long way to go before I get need artists (that will be a final step).
(18:55:45) Arthur: Also I'm thinking about it as an online game. Probably without a paper counterpart.
(18:56:06) Steven: interesting
(18:56:24) Steven: besides magic the gathering i know of only one other game like thatr
(18:56:44) Arthur: What other game?
(18:57:41) Arthur: I don't what to go the Magic Online route where that cards cost money, because that seems totally immoral.
(18:58:07) Steven: i cant remember the name its been years but if you type in online trading card game in yahoo it shoud come up i remember it did cost money though
(18:58:42) Arthur: I'm thinking maybe if just by logging on and playing you are given cards there could be a better balance.
(18:59:48) Steven: that would be a nice idea
(19:01:54) Arthur: And money to support the system could be made with palatable ads like google ads.
(19:02:50) Steven: yeah
(19:02:51) Arthur: And maybe physical gear like shirts and coffee mugs.
(19:03:02) Arthur: I think its a fun idea.
(19:03:10) Arthur: I already have a theme I like.
(19:03:17) Steven: it is a fun idea. whats your theme?
(19:04:23) Arthur: post-apocalyptic sci-fi plus magic. But it is unclear where the magic ends and the technology begins because the technology is so ingrained in the culture.
(19:04:54) Arthur: Also it is a energy starved world. So the basic need for everything is energy.
(19:05:39) Steven: so its like energy costs to make stuff work, similer to magic
(19:06:37) Arthur: Yea, but energy is harder to get and you also have energy as your life total maybe.
(19:07:29) Arthur: Maybe a sort of survival game. Try to maintain your energy supply while destroying your opponents. I'm not sure.
(19:07:49) Steven: i like that concept
(19:07:57) Steven: sounds very stratigic
(19:08:08) Arthur: Maybe not even have a concept of damage in the normal way.
(19:08:40) Steven: it sounds almost like underground nuke bunkers and supplies
(19:09:03) Arthur: That's kinda how I see it.
(19:09:11) Arthur: But without the nuke bunkers.
(19:09:42) Steven: you would need to specify exactly what the energy itself is
(19:10:00) Arthur: I have almost thinking of putting it in a time when the Sun is fading and hence the lack of energy.
(19:10:01) Steven: scifi is based on explaining how what your using works. thats what seperates it from magic
(19:10:34) Arthur: Yea.
(19:10:41) Arthur: That's a good point.
(19:12:20) Steven: and is there only one kind of energy? or only one way of getting it. these are other things to think about
(19:12:33) Arthur: Yea.
(19:12:43) Steven: and also how exactly that energy sustains life
(19:12:54) Arthur: There will be more than one kind.
(19:13:38) Arthur: I'm thinking every card will have an "upkeep" of some sort. To feed it or fuel it.
(19:14:18) Steven: sounds good...maybe other cards that will upgrade those first cards to make it more fuel efficient
(19:14:33) Arthur: Yea.
(19:15:28) Steven: it wouldnt be so much as having alot going on as much as a little bit focused and upgraded to do more at least thats what it sounds like
(19:16:29) Arthur: I don't really see it that way. And I'd like there to be lots of different viable tactics. So ideally both would work.
(19:16:44) Steven: sounds fun
(19:17:41) Arthur: I am envisioning it as smalling scale than magic. A card is one person, not a small army. One meal worth on energy would count.
(19:18:09) Arthur: Not huge armies. Just small groups fighting for survival.
(19:19:53) Steven: its an interesting idea but it all has to start with a back story to be a foundation for the rest
(19:20:15) Arthur: To a point, yes.
(19:20:41) Arthur: But also I don't like the idea of having the game fallow a story.
(19:21:18) Arthur: So the back story is only important to define how the world works and what can be done in it.
(19:22:18) Steven: well isnt that what it does in magic for the most part? except for those truly hardcore fans who read the books and all too doent it just define why those cards are those cards
(19:23:22) Arthur: They didn't worry about back story at all in beginning of magic.
(19:23:57) Arthur: They just made card that worked and had a few basic characters and races they refered to.
(19:24:31) Steven: no but in the beginning of magic they did have the back story that you and your opponent are rivel wizards playing for control of a plane of existence
(19:24:31) Arthur: But I think you are right that a back story would help make the game more cohesive.
(19:24:44) Steven: i have that in a revised edition rulebook
(19:25:01) Arthur: Yes, but that isn't much to start with now is it. ;-)
(19:26:11) Steven: sure it is. it explains why your having the game. and it explains why your using spells and explains that the five colors are kinds of magic you yourself are summoning. its the base foundation for the game which the first cards could be based off of after the concept of how the game works came together
(19:26:30) Arthur: True.
(19:27:46) Arthur: And we already have that: You are the leader of a small band of people (maybe human, maybe not) and you are fighting for survival on a resource starved world.
(19:27:55) Arthur: But I guess that isn't enough.
(19:28:21) Arthur: Because that doesn't explain why the 2 player don't just join forces. ;-)
(19:28:59) Arthur: Maybe there should be some common pool that each player can draw from. Something to fight over. Something needed for life.
(19:29:00) Steven: true very true. you need some kind of conflict in the first place. for magic the root conflict was greed
(19:29:08) Arthur: Maybe water!
(19:29:15) Arthur: Clean Water.
(19:29:34) Arthur: Or maybe just the energy thing we talked about.
(19:29:36) Arthur: Hmm.
(19:29:42) Steven: thats a good plan but why not just share the water. or energy
(19:29:58) Steven: what elementery human obsession is keeping them from coming together and sharing
(19:30:00) Arthur: There isn't enough to go around.
(19:30:41) Arthur: Maybe your group is already formed. We could call it your family.
(19:31:01) Arthur: And you have to keep your family alive as best you can.
(19:31:12) Steven: that would make it much stronger concidering if it were just a random group your stuck with you may wanna kill them off and take the water for yourself
(19:31:41) Arthur: Unless without them you cannot survive.
(19:31:59) Arthur: People need help for things.
(19:32:21) Steven: very true
(19:32:39) Steven: so your fighting over this water or energy
(19:33:19) Arthur: Or maybe you are fighting for control of a renewable resource. A spring or a geothermal energy source.
(19:33:26) Steven: you set your equipment up to take it and so does your opponent then the game is spent trying to get the water while stopping your opponant. once the water is gone game is over who ever has most water wins
(19:33:55) Arthur: Hmm.
(19:34:12) Steven: what kind of feild would it be played on
(19:34:39) Steven: will people in your group be seen as cards
(19:34:41) Arthur: I think maybe it should start earlier. Before you get to the resource. Then there is also a race to get there and that kind of thing.
(19:35:01) Arthur: I think everything should be a card.
(19:35:14) Arthur: Just for simplicity.
(19:35:27) Arthur: Maybe even the player should be represented as a card.
(19:35:50) Steven: yeah and each need a certen amount of energy per turn.
(19:37:13) Arthur: You can have a family of any size, but the more you have the more energy you must have to survive.
(19:38:02) Arthur: And maybe if you cannot feed a person they defect to the other side.
(19:38:08) Steven: maybe you need family to run the equipment
(19:38:24) Steven: no if they defect that could totally ruin the other persons energy flow
(19:38:35) Steven: its an interesting tactic but shoudlnt they just die?
(19:38:55) Steven: actually
(19:38:55) Steven: wait
(19:38:59) Arthur: Maybe the other side has the option of buying them over with food.
(19:39:03) Steven: yes let them defect and the other side has the choice
(19:39:06) Steven: lol awesome
(19:39:19) Arthur: Tools or machines wouldn't defect they'd just stop working.
(19:40:05) Arthur: So maybe one of the basic differences between types of cards in intelegent of non-intelegent.
(19:40:17) Steven: i like the sound of that
(19:40:18) Arthur: * or
(19:42:09) Arthur: Also maybe electrical or sugar driven. Also maybe lay-energy driven, for magical people or tools.
(19:42:50) Steven: any hope of sliight bits of solar power?
(19:43:19) Arthur: Sure, but limited, like all energy sources.
(19:43:39) Steven: maybe on a timer
(19:43:53) Arthur: And algae farms if you need sugar from sun.
(19:45:31) Arthur: OK, imagine this. The game begins with two sides each requiring 10 units of energy.
(19:45:53) Arthur: Each has an energy reserve, but will run out in time.
(19:46:27) Arthur: There is a contested resource that can provide only 10 unit of energy per turn.
(19:46:39) Arthur: I mean each side needs 10 units per turn.
(19:46:54) Steven: ok
(19:47:10) Arthur: So the teams fight it out so that they can keep there family alive.
(19:47:54) Arthur: The issue is what about the draw condition, when each side is reduced to the point that they only need 5 units each.
(19:47:56) Arthur: Hmm.
(19:48:40) Steven: hmm
(19:51:17) Steven: i guess it depends how many cards would be needed maximumly on the feild for a decent game
(19:53:09) Steven: amounts of energy at game start should be determined by whats on the field for maximum play and that will allow a large varience in place
(19:53:11) Steven: in play*
(19:54:05) Arthur: Hmm.
(19:54:33) Steven: you dont want it easy and predictable but you dont want it all over the place either
(19:55:48) Arthur: I'm gonna have to think about this alot.
(19:56:41) Steven: when complete it sounds like it will be an awesome game just concept wise
(19:58:20) Arthur: I'll be back in a bit.
(19:58:34) Steven: ok talk to u then
(20:44:52) Arthur: Bob (Lena's dad) helped me think of the following: If the game reaches a stable state (where there are enough resources for all) then time could be fast forwarded (each player puts some number of new people into play) so that contention exists again.
(20:45:20) Arthur: Or you could just wait. The families will grow to some degree.
(20:45:23) Arthur: Hmm.
(20:46:22) Arthur: Gone again.
(20:46:46) Steven: sorry i was workin on a papar
(20:47:49) Arthur: And I'm just randomly throwing out ideas.
(20:47:54) Arthur: It's cool. ;-)
(20:48:25) Steven: lol ok cool
(22:42:42) Steven logged out.

A Chat with Steven 2

(23:49:09) Arthur: I've been continuing work on Dim Future.
(23:50:05) Steven: i was looking at the additions u had up the other day. its been looking good.
(23:50:10) Steven: whats the new progress?
(23:52:23) Arthur: I've just been adding more and more detail.
(23:53:02) Arthur: I'm still worried that I may be infringing Wizards of the Coast copyrights.
(23:53:47) Steven: why have u been worried about that? what could u possibly be using that could be copyrighted by them?
(23:54:42) Arthur: Concepts.
(23:55:00) Arthur: Also wordings.
(23:55:31) Arthur: For instance I don't call Actions, effects like they are in magic.
(23:55:52) Arthur: I'm worried about the use if the stack, too.
(23:56:23) Steven: in the harry potter game effects are called Actions. and infact the game is made my wizards
(23:56:59) Arthur: Yes, but I didn't know that so it doesn't matter.
(23:57:12) Arthur: Copyright protect independent innovation.
(23:57:12) Steven: yes just like it doesnt matter about magic
(23:57:42) Steven: you are contiously tryin to make the game not like magic. and to make it your own.
(23:57:46) Arthur: No because I know about magic. I've read the rule, so in theory I could be copying it.
(23:58:08) Arthur: It's silly I know, but that's copyright law.
(23:58:25) Steven: yeah
(23:58:48) Steven: kinda how the holy blood holy grail guys went after dan brown sayin he copied them
(00:04:54) Arthur: Yea.
(00:05:33) Arthur: Just for your enjoyment, form wikipedia about the case you mension:
The judge, Peter Smith, also included a code in his judgment. Throughout the judgment, apparently random letters are italicised and these form the message. The letters in the first paragraphs spell smithy code and the rest appear as follows "jaeiextostgpsacgreamqwfkadpmqzv". This was subsequently decoded to read "Smithy Code Jackie Fisher who are you Dreadnought".[12], referring to the British admiral whom Judge Smith admires. As with the book, this secret message made use of Fibonacci numbers for its encoding. (00:06:02) Arthur: * from
(00:06:40) Arthur: Anyway, I'm going to make enough cards for 2 small decks (maybe 30-40 cards).
(00:06:51) Arthur: Would you be willing to play test it with me?
(00:07:16) Steven: yeah deffniitly
(00:08:26) Arthur: I'm not sure when. But at some point.
(00:09:46) Steven: from what i have seen so far it looks like it has the potental to be more enjoyable then magic. if done right
(00:10:11) Arthur: I'm worried about combat.
(00:10:54) Steven: why
(00:11:17) Arthur: I'm not sure how the movement stuff will work. We'll have to see.
(00:11:56) Arthur: BTW, have I mensioned that I'm trying to make the game backwords from magic, in that big character will happen at the beginning, but towards the end they will be unmaintainable so the small stuff will count.
(00:11:58) Steven: i suggest something similer to marvels vs. system
(00:11:58) Steven: where positioning counts
(00:12:26) Steven: awesome
(00:12:57) Arthur: Kinda. What I'm worried about though is that combat is triggered by motion. I just don't know how it will play out.
(00:12:57) Steven: if postion matters you could make it like certin characters can only use certian matchines if they are near it and all
(00:13:20) Arthur: Yea. I've thought about that.
(00:13:38) Arthur: And that areas would give bonuses to characters on the area only.
(00:13:58) Arthur: So you'd try to force combat on that area.
(00:14:24) Steven: i see, sounds interesting
(00:14:37) Steven: what kind of bonuses exactly
(00:16:35) Arthur: Laser Turret
Area — Machine Initial Energy: 0

Characters you control on this area gain +2 to their Attack.

D: Deal 2 damage to target character this is in No Man's Land or one of your areas. (00:17:56) Steven: i see
(00:19:23) Arthur: But I'm hoping to move into more tactical things like maybe:
(00:19:55) Arthur: "You may pay 2L to move any character you lead to this area."
(00:20:12) Steven: yeah i like the sound of that.
(00:20:20) Arthur: It would allow all sorts of interesting things.
(00:20:23) Steven: some areas being harder to get to then others
(00:20:55) Arthur: Yea. Maybe abilities that drain the leaders energy when the character moves into the area.
(00:21:07) Arthur: Or a "Caltrops" like ability.
(00:21:31) Steven: yeah